Talk:Beyoncé

Lemonade

Can we add in the lead that lemonade was the best selling album(in the world) in 2016 and is since rated one of the greatest albums. Also can we add in the lead that her debut album dangerously in love was one of the best selling in the 21st century. See Eminem or Christina Aguilera or Mariah Carey leads as an example. They all state if their albums were the best selling. 80.249.61.74 (talk) 13:52, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Birth name controversy: Beyoncé vs. Beyonce (accent vs. no accent)

I'm hoping to build consensus on whether and how to handle Beyoncé's birth name, specifically whether or not to include the accented final é. I am not seeking to relitigate whether to use the é in the article title or throughout the article nor which name to use as the article title and in the lead. These are settled questions and I agree with the way these are handled.

The info box lists Beyoncé's birth name as Beyonce Giselle Knowles, without the acute accent on the é at the end of her name. This is repeated in the early life section. The note offered as support for omitting the accent states: Naming laws in Texas do not allow accented characters (é). The linked article, Naming in the United States makes no mention of Texas. The relevant section of the Naming article only mentions California's prohibition on accents and other diacritics and then mentions a few states that do permit them. I see the issue has been raised here and here but there was not actually much discussion.

The second Talk page entry I linked states Naming laws in Texas do not allow accents in birth names. The linked Houston Chronicle article, from 2017, does state the following:

Letters of the alphabet, as printed on Texas documents like birth certificates and driver licenses, do not contain any extra symbols known as "diacritical marks," including accents, tildes, graves, umlauts and cedillas.

And then later goes on to say:

While existing state law doesn't prohibit including these marks on documents, it does not mandate adoption of software that would make their inclusion possible.

The Houston Chronicle and Naming articles are at best consistent with the assertion that unaccented Beyonce is what appears on her birth certificate, but this is hardly conclusive. Some legal documents and databases use all caps; does that mandate we style her birth name BEYONCE GISELLE KNOWLES? At present, the selective use of Beyonce looks odd and the support provided for this editorial decision is thin. (I would note that even if we did have a copy of her birth certificate, it would likely be considered inappropriate support per WP:BLPPRIMARY and MOS:FIRSTBIO.)

This warrants discussion, in accordance with general Wikipedia standards and because there is significant interest in Beyoncé's name, as evidenced by many discussions about various aspects of her name in the Talk page archives. (The two 'discussions' I linked where the only ones I found that specifically addressed the birth name, but here are many others addressing other issues with her name and what to name the article.)

I have looked around for guidance and so far have found none that addresses this particular issue. I have consulted MOS:NAME, including the subsection MOS:BIRTHNAME and these do not get to the issue at hand. Other guidance on name changes and maiden names is similarly not applicable to the question at hand. There is very little guidance at Template:Infobox_person. It says to include a birth_name only if different from the name. There are lots of discussions about what constitutes a material "difference" on the Talk page. I did not see the accent issue addressed, but the archive is voluminous.

I looked at the List of people from Texas for names with é. The typical practice is to either include the accented é in the birth_name parameter or to make no specific mention of the birth name. See below. (There were several people on the list who were born outside of Texas and I did not include them in my review. I did not look at other common forms like á and ñ.)

Birth name accented:
• Terra Jolé
• Renée Zellweger
• Flaco Jiménez
• Brené Brown
• Chris Pérez

Birth name not listed in Infobox or Early life section:
• Renée Elise Goldsberry
• Santiago Jiménez Jr.
• André Roberson
• Luis Jiménez (sculptor)

Unaccented name used:
• Maïté Schwartz (diacritics are omitted throughout the article)

Many reliable sources state that she was born Beyoncé Giselle Knowles, including Britannica and a different Houston Chronicle article than the one offered as support for omitting the é. My preference would be to use the é in her birth name. An alternative approach is leave her birth name out entirely. This would be better than having a poorly sourced, contentious styling that conflicts with the rest of the article, as we do currently. However, I am open to other perspectives and again, given the interest in what her "real" name is, I concede there may be encyclopedic value in addressing this in the article, with appropriate consensus and references. MYCETEAE - talk 21:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I have removed the birth name from the infobox and Early life section after leaving this up for 5 days with no response. See edit here. The birth name is poorly sourced and represents inappropriate synthesis by extrapolating from general sources about naming laws in the US and Texas to conclude what Beyoncé's birth name must be. This is against general WP standards. The high standards for biographies of living people demand that this be removed unless consensus and high quality sources can be found.

I note that the following hidden text following the birth name in the infobox and there was a similar comment at Early life:

<!--Do not replace the last "e" here with the accented "é".-->

Such instruction goes against the manual of style on hidden text. -- MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫— talk 16:04, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Main picture

Why do people keep changing the main picture to the old and unflattering picture in 2023 rather than the new picture from the Kamala Harris rally? Katiejohnson007 (talk) 13:17, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

The new picture you are referring to is a copyright violation. Breaktheicees (talk) 15:32, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

It's an ongoing issue in many articles about celebrities and public figures. As Breaktheicees stated, we cannot use photos that are protected under copyright. See: Image use policy. You could take a look at the library of Beyoncé-related files on Wikimedia Commons and start a discussion here to propose a new photo.

A lot of editors have a preference of using a recent photo. I haven't seen any policy or guideline that says we must do this (although one may exist). In my view, an older photo that is high quality and does not grossly misrepresent the subject is often preferable to a newer photo that is grainy or catches the subject at an awkward moment. Wikipedia is not promotional material, but we don't have to use a mid-quality image when better options are available. See recent discussions at Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, and Liam Payne for examples of how this can go. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 17:51, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Genre change

her genres should be listed as R&B funk-pop soul hip hop dance she only has a handful of songs that are afrobeats and she only has one country album a big bulk of her catalouge is funk and soul country and afrobeats shouldnt be included in her primary genres 99.209.57.138 (talk) 16:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Businesswoman

I noticed that her lead sentence has hidden text insisting on calling her a businesswoman. However, I checked the talk page archives and I do not see consensus to call her a businesswoman- what is exactly making her a businesswoman that differentiates it from other celebrities? Besides her own haircare line and Ivy Park, has she notably been a "businesswoman?" She's more of an actress than a businesswoman. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 02:20, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Lead change

Her lede is going under rapid changes, with it going from 4 paragraphs at the start of this month to 5, which goes against MOS:LEAD standards. Please be advised to not stuff her lead article with too much WP:FLUFF. Thank you. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 02:24, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

After doing some copyediting, I've gotten it back down to 4 paragraphs, but it still exceeds the maximum of 400 words for the lead section (it is currently at 488). I do agree that information about her cultural impact should be mentioned, but be concise, as there are only so many ways to say "Beyonce is very good." PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 03:13, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

There are also too many EFNs in her lede paragraph. This should be changed to bulleted points with all the sources and their appropriate quotes. I'll try to convert the EFNs later when I have the time. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 03:15, 27 November 2024 (UTC)